The THANKSGIVING Episode

Questions for the Day:

• Everyone has their own Thanksgiving traditions. Of course, there are classics like eating Turkey, but there are other traditions unique to each family. How do you usually celebrate Thanksgiving?
• As Thanksgiving rolls around, we've got to talk about Black Friday. Some people really like it as an opportunity to buy stuff at a discount, while others really don't like it. Where do you stand on it? Have you ever participated in Black Friday sales?

Special Guest:
Lauren Rogers, Project Manager for Digital Fundraising, Special Offerings and the Presbyterian Giving Catalog, Presbyterian Mission Agency

Guest Question:
There are so many organizations asking for our money and donations. Why should I give to the church, and the PC(USA) more broadly, over other organizations or partners?

Resource Roundup:
PCUSA's Giving Tuesday Webpage

For Listening Guides, click here!
Got a question for us? Send them to faithpodcast@pcusa.org!
A Matter of Faith website

Transcript

00:03 – Simon Doong

Hello and welcome to a matter of faith a Presby Podcast, the podcast where we respond to your questions and comments on issues of faith, social justice, and church life. Don't be afraid to write in and ask your question. Because if it matters to you, it matters to us. And it just might be a matter of faith,

00:21 – Lee Catoe

whether it be faith in God, faith in others or faith in yourself. We are brought to you by the Presbyterian peacemaking program and unbound the interactive journal on Christian social justice for the Presbyterian Church, USA. I am your host, Lee Catoe.

00:39 – Simon Doong

And I'm your host, Simon Doong.

00:41 – Lee Catoe

Without further ado, let's dive into today's questions.

00:46 – Simon Doong

Well, hello, everybody. Welcome again, to a matter of faith a Presby podcast, Leah and I, today are bringing you Thanksgiving greetings. Yes, indeed.

00:55 – Lee Catoe

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone, and all the things that that means. So Happy Thanksgiving, and we are very thankful. It is a time of thanks. And Simon, I'm very thankful for you.

01:08 – Simon Doong

Oh, thank you, Lee. And I'm really thankful for you. And you know who we are so thankful for our listeners.

01:14 – Lee Catoe

Indeed, yes, we are so grateful that you all have been on this journey with us. And there are a few of you now. So we are very thankful that y'all listened to us each week. And welcomed our guests and, and all those things. So yes, we are very grateful for you all.

01:35 – Simon Doong

And we know that Thanksgiving is a time for reflection. It's a time for family. And it's a time when everyone can celebrate. And there are some traditions that are celebrated by everyone. But everyone also has their own little takes and twists and nuances, the ways that they celebrate Thanksgiving. And we've got a question about that. So our first question reads, “everyone has their own Thanksgiving traditions. Of course, there are classics, like eating turkey, but there are other traditions unique to each family, how do you usually celebrate Thanksgiving?”

02:10 – Lee Catoe

So many different ways. Yeah, I do remember. And this is definitely has changed throughout, you know, as I've grown older, and it's also changed as I've learned about history, and about, you know, the things that we didn't learn when we were kids about actual events during Thanksgiving, we're talking about basically genocide of our native siblings during this time, and it wasn't this happy, you know, thing. And, and, and having those layers added to a day that has really been instilled in the culture in this country. And so that's kind of changed how the traditions in which I take part in and kind of also thinking a little bit deeper, I don't I think we have to kind of name that at the beginning. That Thanksgiving is often painted as this fictionalized event that happened between native peoples and European settlers. And I think we need to dismiss that and, and really call that out. So that should be added to our traditions each year. And we will add that to this one. But I do think, you know, on the other side of that it has developed into something where families do get together, no matter what kind of family that is. And I do remember that it was during the election, when Trump was elected, and everything was so polarized and still is and and I remember not going home for that Thanksgiving. And that was something that I never regretted. Because I also figured out that, you know, family means a lot of different things. Like I love my family at home, like I love my biological family, I think they're, I wouldn't be who I am today if it weren't for them. And so I don't want to discount spending time with them. And being in relationship with them, though that relationship has been hard in the past. But I do think that I learned that because of that time, I learned about my chosen family who I can surround myself with. Specifically for queer folk where holidays aren't always the most happiest of times, especially if your family is not very supportive of who you are. Holidays aren't that fun. And so finding traditions with your chosen family, we always do Friendsgiving and we cooked and I mean, my friends are from all over the country and so different, eating different foods and just kind of like fellowshipping together was always a good tradition that I enjoyed that has evolved as I've grown older. And now that I've moved it will be finding new traditions with new people. And not necessarily going home all the time. And so I do think it has evolved. But one of the biggest things in our family, we didn't do a lot of Turkey, we we did a lot of ham, because we, you know, grew up near pig farms and things like that. So that's kind of like the foodie thing. But I think for me the traditions that, you know, kind of call us in to think about the nuances of Thanksgiving, and just being thankful for not only family, but for the chosen family that I've gotten to know I always make sure I kind of create intentional space for that. And I think that's probably one of the more important traditions. And this season. What on em to be thankful for. What about you, Simon?

05:42 – Simon Doong

Yeah. So, I mean, in terms of traditions, I've done it with both sides of my family, sometimes in the same day, that's usually a lot just because, you know, it's a lot of people and a lot of going from one place to the other. But I haven't done that quite as much. But I have appreciated that we did that in the past, because I got to see a couple different ways that people integrate, you know, their own cultures into the more traditional, I guess, American Thanksgiving. Obviously, you've always got the turkey, you've always got the mashed potatoes and the cranberry sauce. And I'm going to go ahead and say this to everyone. I like mashed potatoes. But the mashed potatoes do not hold a kin to sweet potatoes with those marshmallows on top. Oh, yeah. That is I was introduced to that by my aunt. And ever since then, she makes it at Thanksgiving. She makes it at Christmas. She makes it for my birthday. That is like, like if I could just have the turkey and the sweet potatoes. I'm good. I don't really need anything else. That could be enough for my Thanksgiving. 

06:47 - Lee Catoe

Does she put pecans on top?

06:49 - Simon Doong

She does not. Ooh, interesting. I like that idea. 

06:52 – Lee Catoe

Try it with some pecans on top. It might change the might change the the game a little bit. A little bit.

06:58 – Simon Doong

I'll have to check that out. But so we have a like a lot of the staples. And we would get together and you know, mingle, eat, watch football, or play football. That was another thing watching or playing football. And then so that's like one thing. One tradition we've always had, generally, what, especially when I was younger. It's interesting going to the other side of the family, which is Chinese American, and so still has all of those staple foods, but then also has some other things like pork, or maybe a steak is made. Or there's usually always bok choi, you know, Chinese Broccoli vegetable or a couple. Or like my grandmother might make us a particular you know, Chinese dish called Dong, which is like it's essentially glutinous sticky rice that's has a it comes wrapped in a grape leaf. You know, it depends. So there would be other things available that were different from sort of the more stereotypical traditional Thanksgiving, but I always liked that you could you know, just add in, add in what you want, what you think is what means family or culture or home to you put it in there. I always really liked that. And then as I've gotten older, I usually like to do a Turkey Trot or 5k race on Thanksgiving morning. That's become a fun tradition to do. And yeah, so those are some of my my traditions. Overall, I do want to share a story with everyone about the sweet potatoes. Leah and I have talked previously about serving as young adult volunteers and I served as a young adult volunteer in South Korea. And one of the things that we did fairly early on during our Yav year was we hosted an American style Thanksgiving meal for all of our our Korean friends are buddies, people that worked with us, they came over to where we were staying and we tried to cook you know, this, this meal. And I had gotten my aunt's sweet potato recipe and I was like okay, I'm gonna make sweet potatoes. Well, first of all, I'm sure folks probably know this and will laugh when I say this sweet potatoes don't look the same in all parts of the world. I'm used to sweet potatoes being an orange color. Mm hmm. These were purple. Oh, at least purple on the outside and more of a yellowish on the inside. And we went and bought them and I was like what are those? They said these are the sweet potatoes and I was like those are sweet potatoes. All right. That's all fine. Yeah, it tasted fine. But so what ended up happening was we only had this this one oven and we'd have the turkey in there since like five in the morning. And it took up almost all the room and I needed to get the Sweet Potatoes cooked so I had the sweet potatoes. We had to track down marshmallows. It took so long to find marshmallows in Korea. We tracked down the marshmallows. So I have the the sweet potato And the marshmallows are on top great. And we need to cook them and we need to cook them pretty quick. And everything of course is numbers or in Korean on the actual oven, and the stove top. And so I said, we were looking around, we're like, well, we need to get this cook but there's not enough room in the oven because of the turkey. And so I said, oh well look, there's this little like flap slot above on the upper part of the oven above the main door like oven door. It looks like the tray will fit in there. Oh, okay. Yeah, let's try that. I'm pretty sure that was actually like the broiler or something else. So we slid the the tray of sweet potatoes with the marshmallows in there. Within 30 seconds the marshmallows caught fire. Oh my gosh. So I mean, and the thing cooked pretty quick. So we pulled them out. And I'm putting out the the flames. Not they're not high, but I'm I'm blowing them out. And now I just have burnt sweet potatoes across the top of the dish. So then what I'm doing is I'm going through with a spoon and a fork trying to either, you know, sift out all the burnt sweet, but the black burnt Marshmallow or just mix it in on top. Suffice it to say it went all right. It wasn't cooked as much as I would have liked. But it tasted Okay. People enjoyed it. And no one knew what it was or wasn't supposed to look like. And they were very appreciative. But that is a story about trying to carry on a Thanksgiving tradition somewhere else and learning in the process.

11:32 – Lee Catoe

Yeah, yeah. And it is a very American thing that yeah, it's not celebrated in many other places. I think it can, Canada has a Thanksgiving Day sometime. But I do remember a lot of fond memories during the time. And during my Yeah, via you know, we all cooked and, and it was a nice time together and one of our, one of our Yav mates who lives in another house, but in Nashville, it's from the UK and, and didn't necessarily celebrate Thanksgiving. So, um, she had that experience for the first time and you know, like, obviously knew about kind of like the history of it, but not necessarily like the holiday and, and so that was fun to have that kind of moment with her. But I do think it is a time, you know, that we don't, we don't often take time to give thanks. And to appreciate others. And especially like, sometimes on this podcast, we do deconstruct a lot of things, you know, like and but but we can also at the same time also know that this is a you know, this is a time of the year where it is a good time to just pause and be able to, to be thankful specifically during like a time like this pandemic, it's we didn't get many of us didn't get to go home for Thanksgiving last year. And some of us may not again, I won't be going home, but just because of how things have worked out. And you know, it is a good time to pause and give thanks for all the blessings that we do have and to remember, you know, you know that we are here to love and to see one another and, and I do think it is a good time to do that. So So yeah, I don't want to discount that either. And as a time for joy, I have had some of the My fondest memories during Thanksgiving times with my grandmother that I'll always remember her cooking. during Thanksgiving. She always loved that. And she always like he loved us all being together. And we were very, very close to her. And I can remember like there are some weird times where I can you know, remember that and I can smell her cooking sometimes like it can kind of like happen if I'm thinking about it, but it was always that time of her like during Thanksgiving cooking biscuits and pecan pie. And she didn't make a caramel cake that I tell I'm telling you like there are some times where I can just smell it. And and it's those moments, you know that I think and I hope that we can also sit into is that there there have been great memories being made around a table with a turkey. And with all the dressing or stuffing or whatever you eat. I grew up eating dressing. I didn't really know what Stephen was until maybe I went to college. I don't even know there was a difference. So I grew up with stuffing. Yeah, see, he can tell we're from kind of different areas of the of the map here. But yeah, I just think it's a time of year that is it's always good to to stop and give thanks. Specifically now.

14:47 – Simon Doong

Yeah, definitely. And I like what you said about the pandemic sort of forcing us to do a pause and celebrate in a different way. Similarly in our YAV years, not everyone goes home during. And so like celebrating Thanksgiving in Korea made me think about not only the family I'm thankful for, but about the family that I can, I can make or become a part of where I am. And I think that happened during the pandemic as well. I was fortunate that I was able to help with a soup kitchen, Thanksgiving, we used to do lunch, so a Thanksgiving meal, bagged lunch, but still able to help out with that. And then I was able, I was fortunate that I was able to go to the pastors for Thanksgiving, you know, just in a very just because they were part of my bubble. So we were able to do that. And that was really nice. And I, I really appreciated that and was grateful. So yeah, for anyone out there who's celebrating Thanksgiving, we're thankful for you. And if you have some fun, Thanksgiving traditions write in and let us know because we'd like to hear about them.

15:55 – Lee Catoe

We'd like to hear that now. Well, another one of our traditions, and and it has never been my tradition, but it has been members of our families, traditions is that you eat. And then at like four o'clock in the morning, you began to go shopping for that what we are calling or what has been called Black Friday, and we do have a question about Black Friday. And in many ways, it has become some people's tradition. But as Thanksgiving is approaching, we have to talk about, you know, Black Friday, because it's it's going to happen and it happens early and earlier every year. And our question says, ”some people really like pride Friday as an opportunity to buy stuff at a discount, while others really just don't like it. Where do you stand on it? And have you ever participated in Black Friday sales?” Simon, I'm just imagining you just like running through the aisles going after your deals, are you that person?

16:54 – Simon Doong

I wasn't growing up. We usually tended to avoid shopping on Black Friday, because of just the craziness that happens. We usually just like to usually we were still in a food coma on Friday. So it was like, yeah, we'll just you know, relax or whatever else I have in later in my life. I have gone out on Black Friday. I remember one year like we went to Walmart, not early, just like it was kind of just in the afternoon. A lot of people shelves were pretty empty. I was like, Okay, well, you know, this was fine, I guess for what we could find. I wasn't super, you know, we were just more curious to see what we could find if we found something that might make a good Christmas gift. Great. But if not, it was all right. I have different feelings about Black Friday. I remember I was watching. I think it was the this is back when Stephen Colbert still did the Colbert Report. And he made a joke about how Thanksgiving sorry, Thanksgiving, pardon me how Black Friday is eating other holidays. You know, it is it consumes Thanksgiving. Some people are like getting prepared for it as early as Halloween. It's like this, you know, consumption culture really gone amok. And now we have Cyber Monday as well, where all the online deals happen on Monday, which maybe in some ways is better than Black Friday, because at least you don't need to, like, physically fight someone to try to get into a store. But it is still part of the same sort of consumerism focused culture. So I think there's something to be said about that. So I've I have gone it's kind of my answer, but I have different feelings about it. And I think I have actually have another story about that. But I want to hear what you have to say first.

18:42 – Lee Catoe

Well, as I was, like, as I said, like, my I have family members who is just like you eat, and then you say, Bye, you're going, you're going out to get the deals, and I made the mistake. We never really did it. My mom used to do it a little bit, but like, I never really went and I went once and I'll never do it again. Because I saw people just turn into like, machines, you know, like, I mean, people were, I mean throw in stuff, like knocking people down, like busting out like doors and like it was absolutely terrifying to see what you know, what you think is a deal when in reality, it's not really a deal most of the time and I just remember just being like, what is what is happening right now like this has just turned into this like chaos. And so I've always after that, I've always had a lot of problems with it. I mean, I know family members who buy stuff and they don't even need it. They just buy it because it's you know, they just think it's a deal and it's almost like an addiction and like this is what like capitalism has done is to like disguise something as a sale when in reality it's really not because my mom always said if you can sell it that price sold that day. Why can't you sell at that price on any other day? Like, what is it that makes that that special? So my mom always used to say anything about a deal. She's always just like, if you can sell at this price right now, why can't you sell it? You know, like that every other time of the year? But But I do think, yeah, I'm always wary about like, even the usage of the phrase Black Friday, because it is there are some examples, or there's some stories about the origin of it, it was like, it was called Black Friday, because of like the increase in like, traffic and foot traffic the day after Thanksgiving. And I think for me, like, and we can read these light origin stories of Black Friday, like the light that color black is always seen as this like negativity thing. And in some cases, it is also said that Black Fridays, called by Friday, because the stores would go from the red to the black, they would be making profit. But I do think we have to no watch out for how we are using a certain color isms within our language. And so I've always been kind of wary about the usage of the of the phrase Black Friday, specifically, if it's used, and if if we're connotative, black with anything kind of negative, which has been used in multiple ways, which can also perpetuate racism and colorism and things like that. So then what I mentioned that, but I do think it's very, very interesting. And yeah, like my, my family would have like plans, they'd like, have plans of like, where things were, and like, all these other kind of things, but I do think it creates some kind of it just create, like a overly consumer atmosphere that I often think Shadows what we were just talking about giving thanks for what you do have, and giving thanks for just like being able to take a breath. And I think those things like side by side is very interesting. Yeah.

22:04 – Simon Doong

And as you were saying that I was thinking about, you know, the people lining up and for for a deal. Uh, you know, it's kind of ironic, and I recognize different people have issues with church or the faith community for a variety of reasons. But like, if, if people will mad dash line up and stand in line and Bust the doors open to get a discount on a physical thing. Faith is free. No one's doing that in the Presbyterian Church. People aren't lining up on Sunday morning to get to, you know, to come be a part of the free worship service. Why is that? And I'm not saying that these things necessarily are the same. But I think that there's an interesting question there for us to ponder about. Not saying we need to make faith sound cheap, or like it is something you get a deal on. But if it is something that if faith and community is something that is free, why don't people want to participate in it more?

23:06 – Lee Catoe

Mm hmm. Yeah. Or like, I mean, we proclaim like love was unconditional, which means it's free, without any kind of condition. And, and that is something that I think is interesting when there are those who are on kind of like in the Christian spectrum, where love is conditional. And and what does that mean, when so many people are kind of gravitating towards that, or as we believe, and you know, and that theology that says, like, we were saved even before we were, like even thought about being in in like, God knows that we were going to be into the world like we were going to be birthed into the world at some point. But even before that, even before we were even like conceptualized, we were given this grace and this love that we don't necessarily have to kind of like have a condition to it's there. It's always there. And so that is very interesting is that, yeah, that conversation of conditionality. And as we're as we're talking, like, from people in the church, and my family, they'd always go to church and they love this kind of stuff. And I know a lot of people who do, like a lot of people do this, and I'm not saying I don't get into consumerism, because I do. I just bought stuff. Right before, like, right before we started recording. So I do think it is kind of a, it's a question of, like, you know, how are how is this thing also incorporated in this tradition? So like, I think I think part of it is some of my family really likes that they do it together. It's kind of like something that they have kind of formed and they go together and they go to eat and they stay out late together and they have all these stories. And it's not necessarily about Sometimes it's not about getting the thing. It's about, you know, my aunts and uncles being together and going and like, pretending it's like a game or something. But there's also a privilege in that, too. And that's something else I have talked about, you know, it's the privilege within the tradition of it, as well. So, yeah,

25:22 – Simon Doong

Yeah. And I think there's just a question around. So you saved money by buying something at a deal? What are you doing with that extra money that you have now saved? What is it going towards? Is it to get more stuff? Is it to help someone out isn't to just save for the sake of saving it? And I'm not trying to question people's what people do with their money because everyone is in a different financial situation. But I do think that there's a question there. And I'm not saying people shouldn't like deals. I love deals so much, especially those buy to get ones Oh, love it, you know, or bundles love bundles. But I think there is a question for us as as people and people of faith, what are we doing with that? That extra that extra money that we aren't spending? So want to put that out there for folks? And to your point about the doing it to the sort of the the fun or the sort of camaraderie or community of doing it together? I'd like to share another story if that's okay, go for it, Simon. So last Thanksgiving, good grief. I keep confusing Thanksgiving and Black Friday.

26:29 – Simon Doong

So last year on Black Friday happened to be a couple weeks, or maybe not even maybe a couple weeks or so after the brand new video game consoles came out the PlayStation five and the Xbox series x and s. I know it's a surprise to our listeners that I like video games. It's not like I've ever talked about them before. So the new consoles launch, they're super hard to get if you tried to get them online. You had to be scalpers, who were using bots to be able to buy them in an instant, and you couldn't get them in store shelves. A notice went out that that? You know, target GameStop, Walmart would have limited consoles available for Black Friday. I didn't need a console. It was all good. It was fine. But I decided you know what I do want to go and see during this pandemic, like what does Black Friday look like? It doesn't mean I'm going to go into a store. But I just wanted to walk the street. And I also like a good son. Right? So I was like, You know what, I'll get up early. I'll go walk through and I just want to see what's going on. And so I walked to where some stores were including a Gamestop. This was that like, I don't know, seven ish. There were already I don't know, probably 30 people, if not maybe 40 people in line at the GameStop. The employees for the Gamestop weren't even there yet. And then through a series of events, I ended up standing there in the line. People were wearing masks, people were very nice. Everyone's like, Oh, we're constantly trying to get I'm trying to get the PlayStation. I'm trying to get the Xbox, you know, I'm like, There's only so many available I had I was like there's no way I do this many people are getting anything. And through a series of events, the store opened late because the managers couldn't open the door because the door was jammed. And then someone on another property nearby smelled gasoline and called the fire department. So the fire department had to come and inspect the store before they could open. So it's now like, I don't know, eight something the store was supposed to have opened at like seven or 730 I'm still standing there like an idiot but I'm just observing at all because things are happening and everyone's you know starting to get antsy about when's the store going to open yada yada. Finally, the store opens everyone's a little some people are on edge other people are having a good time because it's like this shared experience right of waiting to try to get the new console. And they open the doors. Obviously it's COVID so only one customer at a time can come in. And then the new starts to travel back to the line. The consoles never arrived. They were still on a trot on where and route to the store. And they had I think it was something like eight Xboxes coming and five Playstations Oh my gosh. So all these people waiting in line for consoles you're not going to get I mean, I knew it was gonna happen but so then they're like, we can take your name down if you're interested in like letting us letting you know when we get more. So everyone in that line, no one got a console that day. And the dude who is at the front had been there since noon on Thanksgiving. So that was like a good What 24 hours maybe, a little less but yeah, more or less. I'm like, did you even have Thanksgiving with your family? No, and then you also get into the crazy line thing where like, Oh, I'm saving a spot for my buddies, though. Yeah, no, no, no, I that's a no no. Oh, you know how that's gonna happen. You know what that's gonna you know? So anyways so that all happens. But throughout that whole process, I've been like chatting with the other people around me who were waiting for a console game to know what they were interested in when they wanted to play on it. You know, people were a little frustrated, but it was like, I figured it was going to happen. I had no investment in getting it. So I wasn't disappointed. But a lot of people work has been waiting since, however long to get something that wasn't even there. And so we walked down. And we even checked into another electronic store to see if they had any they didn't have any they said, go check our website. So after all that process, I was walking with two other guys. And one of them said, you know, this has been a day and an experience. Y'all want a Krispy Kreme, nearby Krispy Kreme. And he just went in and bought Krispy Kremes. For us. Oh, wow. Shared him. And we, you know, we shared our Krispy Kreme reflected on the morning's events. And then we said, you know, good luck getting your console whenever, and went our separate ways, surprisingly wholesome for like a very, you know, sort of long drawn out Black Friday event where no one got anything.

31:02 – Lee Catoe

Yeah, that's, that's, that's amazing, though.

31:06 – Simon Doong

Right, in a pandemic in COVID. So I only offer that story to everyone. Because you I will say there is something to be said about the communal experience of expectation and excitement. And I don't want to discount that. But there is also in that same story. I don't know if you need to camp out starting at noon on Thanksgiving Day

31:27 – Lee Catoe

Yeah, for five, actually, for a total of 13 possible consoles. Right. That may or may not show up.

31:36 – Simon Doong

Right. So just a story for folks to think about.

31:40 – Lee Catoe

Yeah, and closing, no judgment. If Black Friday is your thing. Maybe we just invite you to think about it a little differently. Maybe we also invite you to think about Thanksgiving a little differently. And yeah, and be open to that. Nothing is like none of these events, or holidays or whatever are ever like, perfect. And and I do think that that is also a source of conversation as we've just had. It's all very nuanced. And you always have some experience around it. That is life giving. But there's also some experiences that aren't necessary that necessarily are life giving. And that's something to also think about. So yeah, no judgement. If you're a black friday shopper, I also think, to wish everybody a Happy Thanksgiving, and invite everybody to kind of take that posture of like thinking about it a little deeper, but also enjoying space with family, whether that be chosen, whether that be your biological family, and yeah, finding something to be thankful for in your life, which is often hard for us to take space and to think about. So. Simon again, happy Thanksgiving. I'm thankful for you.

33:01 – Simon Doong

Happy Thanksgiving to you, Lee. I'm thankful for you thankful for this podcast. And again, to our listeners. We are thankful for you all praying for you and enjoy your Thanksgiving. 

33:18 – Simon Doong

Well joining us today for today's podcast, we have a very special guest. We are so excited to be welcoming Lauren Rogers, the project manager for digital fundraising in special offerings and the Presbyterian giving catalog for the Presbyterian Mission agency. Lauren, thanks so much for joining us for this Thanksgiving special of the podcast.

33:39 – Lauren Rogers

I'm so excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

33:41 – Lee Catoe

Yeah. And and Lauren, we are thankful for you. Lauren is a great colleague of ours, and we're so excited that she's on here. But we do have a question. We just didn't ask you on here, you know, just just the fellowship later. We do have a question. And our question reads, “there are so many organizations asking for our money and donations. Why should I give to the church and the PCUSA more broadly over other organizations or partners?”

34:14 – Lauren Rogers

Yeah, that's that's a great question. And it's one in our office we get all the time. And there are so many wonderful organizations out there so many that I support outside of the PCUSA. But I think it's important to know that you know, we as Presbyterians, we're people who who hope in the grace of God and Jesus Christ and part of that hope empowers us to be generous people to give back. And I firmly believe that we become richer by a given we don't become poorer, we become richer. I've been blessed to have the opportunity to study for my executive certificate and religious fundraising. And part of that I've done a lot of, of reading and in research on this and And, you know, fundraising has ministry. And I think that that is something that only recently I've come to realize, but what we're doing is we're trying to build relationships. And we're trying to come together and build genuine connection between between each other between us and God. And one way of doing that is by by giving of our time of our of our gifts of our money. And in doing that, we can help build the kingdom of God. And so I'm, I'm blessed and honored to be a part of this denomination to work for this denomination, to be a giver to this denomination, I have been a recurring donor for, oh, gosh, probably eight years, so longer than I've been an employee of the agency of the mission agency. But it's because I believe in the work of the church. And I believe that the work that we are doing is to build a kingdom of God here on Earth, and in so many different ways. And one of one of the things that makes me so proud of the work that the mission agency does, is that it's holistic. And that is it is short term, medium term, long term. And so we are walking alongside our partners in so many different ways, both here in the United States and abroad. And our gifts help allow that work to happen. It helps us to respond immediately, in times of disaster, for instance, there was an earthquake in Haiti just a couple months ago, and we were able to immediately supply our partners on the ground with what they needed, thanks to our giving. But at the same time, we've been on the ground in Haiti for over a decade, you know, since the big earthquake over a decade ago, since Hurricane Matthew in 2016. And we plan to be there for a long time. And so much of that work is capacity building, it is asking people what, what they want and what they need. And I think that in doing so, we are supporting our siblings in Christ, to help build the kingdom of God where they are. And we are building these genuine connections, these relationships that allow us to to be better Presbyterians to be better Christians, but I'm just I'm so honored to to both be a part of this fundraising ministry, and to be a donor for the Presbyterian Church, USA.

37:24 – Simon Doong

I remember when I first started, I guess, being old enough to receive things in the mail asking for me to give money. And I think this is probably a bit of skepticism that everyone has, when they receive those sort of, you know, promotional giving campaigns is like, Oh, well, how much of my dollar is going to overhead? And how much is actually going to, to the people who need it to the actual I don't want to say project? Because that's the wrong word, but to the actual cause? Yeah. And I think something that that you've been sort of hinting at Lauren, is that it's not it's it is going to the cause. And if it is either going to the partners to the cause, or it's going to support people working in the denomination to help them do that work.

38:11 – Lauren Rogers

Exactly. Which Yeah, exactly. So there's, there is no organization on Earth that doesn't have overhead. And if they say that they don't, they're lying, you know, we do have 18% overhead on average. And that is well, within the realm of acceptable percentages, it goes as high on an acceptable range as high as 35%. So 18% is really fantastic. And we wouldn't have our jobs without it, we wouldn't be able to help nurture so many of these projects along but yeah, when you get to the Presbyterian Church, USA, you know, that you are giving to incredible work that's taking place, whether it's the hunger program, disaster assistance, whether it is are working to eliminate systemic racism and poverty, this work is equipping our partners on the ground with the tools, the education, everything that they need to be the best version of themselves and be who God created them to be. And so, again, that's another reason why I'm proud to be a donor because I know that this work is it's going are these gifts are going to support this wonderful ministry where we are walking alongside our siblings, rather than just going in and saying, This is what we think you need. We are, we are asking them what they want, what they need, and then helping them to become the fullest version of themselves.

39:36 – Lee Catoe

And it's so interesting, too. And I wonder, we could talk about this a little bit, but I know people get very like they're like, I can't give a lot you know, I can't like and though donations and the amounts vary definitely within any kind of organization. But in reality is like, I mean every little bit helps

40:00 – Lauren Rogers

Absolutely, absolutely. And every, every little bit that you give, it helps establish and confirm that that relationship that you have with the church, that that that gratitude that you wish to express to God for all that God has done for us, whether it is, you know, a $5 bill and the offering plate as it's passed along the pew, or whether you know, you are getting a deep Rockwell through the getting catalog, you know, small, big, what you're doing is you're just are expressing this gratitude for this wonderful gift. And it's, I think it's so appropriate that this podcast episodes coming out on Thanksgiving, as we're looking ahead to Advent, you know, we were looking ahead to this gift that we've been given of Jesus Christ. And so how can we repay that? This is one of those ways, you know, small, big, it doesn't matter. And again, it's it's just establishing and confirming those relationships that we're building, which is, which is what we're trying to get at when you give out of obligation. You're not, we're not getting that genuine connection. But when you're giving because you believe in the mission and the vision of this kingdom that we're trying to build on on Earth. That's where that genuine connection happens.

41:14 – Simon Doong

I think also things that that folks might not be aware of is that not every offering is the same. I mean, there is giving to your church there is giving to the the PCUSA as a whole and the denomination offices. But yeah, there are also special offerings focused on specific types of efforts, supporting specific communities, and not even all of the percentage of each of those offerings is necessarily going to the denomination some of it like the peace and Global Witness offering which supports grant. This is like the Presbyterian peacemaking program, congregations in mid counselors retain a percentage of that offering for their own peacemaking efforts. So it's not even all cut and dry as Oh, I'm giving to this and then this, I will never see this money again, it will go somewhere else. No, some of it may actually come back to support your community.

42:05 – Lauren Rogers

Right. Um, I actually the single witness and the Pentecost offerings are my favorite because congregations get to retain a portion of those gifts and use it in their own communities in support work, whether it's with with the Pennock, Pentecost offering, it's supporting children, youth, young adults, peace and Global Witness. It's, you know, peace and justice and reconciliation. It's beautiful to hear the stories of how congregations and councils are using those funds, to share the love of Christ in their communities. And in their context. It's really special to think about how so many of these gifts, yes, we may never see them again, but so many of the folks to do and I know that we we've talked with people in, there's a four for four congregation in Puerto Rico. And when I say four for me, that means they give to all four special offerings, one great hour of sharing Pentecost, he's a Global Witness and Christmas joy. And they have seen these gifts in real life come right back to them, and help them in wake in the wake of natural disasters, and other you know, food justice issues and all these things. Same with with folks in you know, in Texas and in California, who who deal with natural disasters. There are communities that are facing, you know, incredible housing crisis, crises that that give that give generously and then see those gifts come back and projects that are taking place with self development of people, or the hunger program. So it's really special to think about, yes, for some of us, we may never see those gifts personally. And I think that's completely okay. So many of us are so privileged, but there are so many people who are still giving, even when they have little to give and then they're seeing those gifts come back and hearing those stories of how how special that is and how it just reminds them that they are loved by the denomination and by Presbyterians all over the United States is really special.

44:06 – Lee Catoe

Well, thank you, Lauren, for that response. And we're actually going to kind of transitioning right now into our resource roundup segment, and Lauren's gonna stay with us and talk about a little event that's happening. So yeah, tell us about it Lauren.

44:23 – Lauren Rogers

Yeah, so Giving Tuesday is coming up in just a few days. It'll be on November 30. And for those who aren't familiar, Giving Tuesday is a response to the consumer driven holidays of Black Friday, Cyber Monday, all that good stuff, but as the day to celebrate generosity, and the Presbyterian Church is just one of 1000s of organizations that takes part in this day across the world. Over 150 countries it's it's kind of awesome to think that that we're joining with so many others and celebrating generosity as we enter the giving season and as we enter the season of Advent, but For the frustrated charts, USA, we are raising money and holding a virtual celebration that will take place November 30, from 12pm to 8pm. Eastern, it will be broadcast on Facebook. And at pcusa.org/giving. Tuesday, it'll be an eight hour broadcast, which is I know very long, but we will have the schedule out for everyone. You can find it on PC usa.org/giving Tuesday, and we're going to have worship, we're going to have a game show with our former co moderators and moderators. We're going to have conversations around racial justice, homelessness, arts and creativity and worship lots of just really fruitful discussions about how the Presbyterian Church is living our call to Matthew 25. Church, all over the country. And we're gonna be broadcasting from four different locations. So we're just really excited for the stage to showcase what the Presbyterian church is doing to celebrate that. For me, it's a lot about Presbyterian pride. And I hope that those who join us are not only motivated to give but walk away feeling proud of their denomination and proud to be a member of this of this denomination.

46:13 – Simon Doong

Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Lauren, for sharing that with us. We do hope folks will join the live stream and consider giving on Giving Tuesday, and we'll have the link to the GivingTuesday campaign for the PCUSA in the show notes for everyone to check out. And yeah.

46:30 – Lauren Rogers

Sorry, I would be remiss if I didn't say we have set a goal for ourselves that we are trying to reach 1000 gifts this year. So please help us do that. We were really close last year and last year was so unusual. But we're really hoping that that folks step up this year and are even more generous. So thank you for considering being part of that 1000 and hopefully maybe even a little bit more.

46:54 – Simon Doong

Awesome. Well folks consider being one of the 1000 and even if you don't we appreciate your time and your support. And until next time. Thanks again, Lauren. 

47:02 – Lauren Rogers

Thank you for having me. 

47:08 – Simon Doong & Lee Catoe

This has been the matter of faith podcast brought to you by the Presbyterian peacemaking program and unbound. If you would like to submit a question for discussion, you can do so at Faith podcast@pcusa.org. We look forward to hearing from you see you next time. See you next time y'all.

47:40 – Lee Catoe

Well, everyone, we've made it to Episode 40 of a matter of fate, the press B podcast can't believe that but we would love for you to subscribe, like or follow the podcast using your favorite podcast platform.

48:03 – Simon Doong

And don't forget to leave us a review. Preferably five stars. I mean, you know, 40 episodes come on, that's got to be five stars worth of content. And if you haven't checked out all 40 episodes, you've got time so check it out. And give us five stars. We really appreciate it helps us bringing great content to you.

48:22 – Lee Catoe

And you know, we need more questions to make 40 more of these. So send in your questions to faith podcast at PC usa.org And you don't have to be Presbyterian. Just send us a question.