Addressing Homelessness (and Pride) w/ Isaac Adlerstein

Question of the Week:
How can we intentionally celebrate Pride in our churches and as people of faith in our communities?

Special Guest: (16:40)
Isaac Adlerstein, Executive Director, Broadway Community

Guest Question:
What are some of the challenges of addressing poverty and homelessness in urban and city contexts? Are there also certain opportunities available for addressing these issues in cities that are not available in other areas, such as funds, partnerships, etc?

 Broadway Community

Article: Hundreds of asylum seekers to stay at 50 houses of worship in NYC

New York City’s response to the asylum crisis builds on Broadway Presbyterian Church’s model

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Well, hello everyone and welcome again to a Matter of Faith, a Presby Pod Prep . Prep

Speaker 2: 0:07

<laugh>,

Speaker 1: 0:09

A Presby podcast. The podcast where we respond to your questions of faith, justice, and church life. Don't forget to write in and send us your question because,

Speaker 2: 0:21

Because if it matters to you, it matters to us, and it just might be a matter of faith.

Speaker 1: 0:29

Yep . It just might be a matter of faith. And if our introductory conversation does not matter to you, that's okay. You can find the link in the show notes with the ti or the, I should say, the timestamp in the show notes for the segment with our guest for this episode. But we hope you'll stick around because we like to think that it does matter.

Speaker 2: 0:51

Yeah, it does.

Speaker 1: 0:52

And Lee , you matter. How are you?

Speaker 2: 0:55

I'm good. It is a rainy day in DC and we need the rain, so it's kind of like a welcome site to have some rain. It's been very dry, so it's a good thing. So we're celebrating the rain and Yeah. Here in dc How are you? How's Idaho?

Speaker 1: 1:15

Oh , it's good. It has been rainy, oddly enough, over the last couple weeks. Uh, it also feels, oddly, I would, I don't wanna say cold, but like chilly. And I don't know if that's because I haven't experienced June here before, or if that is just normal, but it is, when I say chilly, I just mean that like it's in the sixties or seventies with a tiny bit of wind chill . Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , which is actually beautiful weather. Right. But when you But growing up on the East Coast, when you think June, you're like hot and humid, right? Like we're in it. Yeah,

Speaker 2: 1:49

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:49

We're not in it yet here, which is okay. It's just a little different. Yeah .

Speaker 2: 1:54

Yeah. It's, it's a little chilly here today, which is interesting. But we've had a really nice spring. It hasn't been too, too hot, but it is some solstice now, and yeah, it's time. It is time for, for warm weather. But, but anyway, but it's also time for us to talk about what everybody's talking about in the world, and that is this submarine, the Ocean Gate submarine that it's not funny, but I chuckle because it is becoming one of these things. And one of our friends, Brooke Scott, who is a friend of the podcast, have talked about that. It is so, it is so bizarre and so devastating. Like you experience like the extreme of emotion, you experience like all the memes that are coming out of it, but then you then you're just like, there are people trapped in this thing and it's underwater, like two and some miles underwater, because if y'all don't know about it, it's, it's this submarine that was built by a billionaire that was not regulated very well. It was built very strangely. Some people said it was not equipped to be a , to go underwater like this, but they did it just so they could go see the Titanic. And I just read a article about this fascination with the Titanic, and it's interesting because it, that was such a traumatic event, like thousands, like hundreds and like hundreds of people died in this thing. And so, and for years we've been wanting to go see this shipwreck that's under the ocean. And I, I don't understand the fascination with it because it is such a traumatic thing. And then we have billionaires who want to take field trips to go see it in unregulated submarines that are now trapped with no signal. And I think the last I checked, like tomorrow is when technically air will run out. And so it's just very terrifying. But it's also, like you were mentioning before we recorded, what about the refugee boat that capsized and killed all these people in the Mediterranean and is not getting so much pushed? I think the state clerk of the P U S A sent out a statement about, I think some, like, I think it was the same one maybe, but it's just an interesting dynamic about the resources that are going in to save these billionaires that have chosen to do this. And then the other side of it where you have refugees that are obviously not in submarines but are in boats and drowned and died to get away and to have a better life for themselves. It's just an interesting concept to think about all at the same time. Like, it's obviously devastating for people , like for the families or the people that are, that are still down there. But it's just a weird situation that I think puts a lot of things in perspective about what, what wealth and privilege can do, but also the reason why we have regulations and what does it mean to, to have so much wealth that you're kind of gone against any kind of, any kind of like logic to, to not take a field trip to go see the Titanic and they were gonna have like a tour company for it. So it's like this weird dynamic. And with all that to say, I think having these kinds of conversations in communities of fate where like we hold up all these kinds of questions, like I've been asking these questions about like how justice intersects this along with grief, along with like the obvious thing of people are in danger and they're, they're human and they may have made a mistake, but that is like something else that we always talk about in fate. So it's just all these questions that are kind of popping up for people. And on the other side of it, how people handle this with, with like humor. But also, it's also terrifying for me, cuz that's my worst nightmare is to be underwater like that. So that's happening y'all. And I hope they get found. Time is really ticking, but Yeah. Right . It's an interesting thing.

Speaker 1: 6:14

Yeah. Well, and speaking, you mentioned of power and and privilege in the sports world. We've talked about this before, but the N B A announced the, or I should say the N B A commissioner announced the, the, I guess you would say punishment for John Morant for his second time of an incident involving brandishing a gun on social media. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> , first time he was suspended for just a couple games. This time he's been suspended for 25 games. A lot of people are like, this is nowhere near enough to hold someone accountable. It's, it's way too soft. And people are saying that it stands in contrast to the NBA's sort of safety policy. A lot of people are like, oh, I guess if you're good, it doesn't matter. So again, accountability is important for everyone, whether it's our, our politicians, our entertainers, our actors, and those who are entertaining us through sports and as athletes as well. So something to think about. And also when we've talked before about sort of gun culture in the United States as well, and it's just really unfortunate because it's like you didn't learn the first time.

Speaker 2: 7:30

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:31

Yeah . And I feel like he's not gonna learn this time because it's not, it's not significant enough of a penalty to really impact him. Maybe, maybe teams won't want to deal with him because he is a pr like a PR issue. But I don't know. We'll see

Speaker 2: 7:47

Lessons . But I mean, all around it seems like it's a week of like, I don't know, accountability on all fronts for people who may or may not have a lot of privilege and all those things that intersect it. Uh, but yeah,

Speaker 1: 8:04

There are some things that we can take pride in in our society. And speaking of pride, this month is pride month, and we have a question about pride. The question reads, how can we intentionally celebrate pride in our churches and as people of faith in our communities? Well , one easy way is to show up to a pride parade. Mm-hmm . That is not the only thing you can do though. But that is a very simple thing that you can do. I've talked on previous podcast episodes about being part of a church community that handed out cups of water to people who were participating in the Pride Parade. And that was a great experience. And there are many, many other things that you can do in your community, but that's a pretty straightforward one, is to be present.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Yeah. It's always helpful. And DC just had their pride last weekend, I think, or the weekend before last. Now I can't remember. But one of the things that I, I saw in people as the parade was happening was noticing that churches were showing up. And not only was it like mainline Protestant churches, but the Catholic church showed up, you know, the Presbyterian churches showed up here. And it really does make a difference to, to see faith communities show up in spaces where I think nationally that might go against what most people may think of when they think of Christian faith or religion. So I think definitely showing up and being there. I also think how do you integrate people within your churches and communities and also listening to them. I think that's a big part of how we also celebrate people. It's interesting because in the Presbyterian church, we've, we've been nationally, we've been innclusive in our policy, but only I think in some ways to a certain point. And one of the ways that I really see it is, is actually getting to know culture, actually getting to know what is happening in the lives of people all over the country and all over the world. I think that's a whole different dynamic of, oh, we just accept you. Because I think also it can lead to, we also want you to conform to how we think you should be. Like, we accept you, but you need to look a certain way. You need to say certain things. You can't, you know, I think within the community, sexuality and things like that are a lot more open and a lot more of that is discussed. And that's not something that we do in the church very well. And so I think we could learn a lot from people. I think finding creative ways to incorporate culture into church. One of the great examples, and we've had Sam on the podcast , well, we've had Sam, I don't know if we've had Sam on the podcast, but we've talked to Sam Quist and , uh, the people at St . John's Presbyterian Church in San Francisco who do Dolly Parton church, who also , uh, do drag who , um, who, yeah , yeah. They, they really do open up the conversation about culture and identity and what that means, but also having intersectional conversations about that. Like, what does it mean to be a person of color or a person who is also trans or a person who is also someone with a disability, or how do we talk about body image? And all these things that I think the community has are pretty much an expert in, I would say. And so it's not just kind of being there physically, but how do we integrating the experiences and the things that we do, and also allowing and also allowing people to be in leadership is a big part too.

Speaker 1: 12:15

Yeah. And also remember folks that pride is celebrated in June, but pride doesn't end in June. The same way that Black History Month isn't just the one month.

Speaker 2: 12:27

Right. And it's celebrating that joy, right ? Like this pride is meant to be, pride was started, you know, as a riot. That's what happened. And it was started by trans people of color who were also in poverty and on the streets. And how it has evolved to what we see now is very interesting, because it can be very whitewashed. It could be very corporate, it could be something complete opposite. And they were fighting against police brutality. They were fighting against laws that, that were oppressing them and where they were. And a and a lot of the times, white, gay and lesbian folk co-opted the movement in a , in a huge way because they didn't wanna be associated with poor people of color who were trans and on the streets. They didn't like that. And so there's even like racism and white supremacy within the gay rights movement that we often don't talk about, but it is. But within that riot, there was also a celebration of joy. And I don't think we see that enough either. It's all about, it's kind of an extreme. It's like, well, you need to talk about the trauma all the time. And I think at some point the church should also be open up to the ways in which people experience joy in who they are. And that comes with music dance, that comes with pop culture, that comes with the way we dress, that comes with all these different things that I don't know if the church is ready for, like I said, if we are really gonna celebrate pride, people in our national office and in our churches should be going to drag shows. They should be going and seeing what that experience is. They should be going to like spaces and not taking them over, but in there to experience them and being allies. Drag story time , people are protesting those now. So what if you went and protected and stood in front of the door to protect people and drag performers who are reading to kids like that stuff is happening constantly. And so there are always ways to celebrate pride, but I think the biggest thing is yeah , show up is, and not just say you're inclusive. Right . Actually show up and be there. And that's to the national office of any denomination you need to show up.

Speaker 1: 15:02

Yeah. And if anyone has the chance, I would recommend if you ever are passing through New York City, go to the Stonewall Inn , which is obviously famous for the Stonewall riots, but it's also just a wonderful place of history. And especially around pride month, you learn so much about the history of, frankly, the, the movement for rights and liberation. And I think it's something that, again, you, and maybe it's kind of like if you go to some of the major areas in the South related to civil rights, there's something to it that is spiritual, even if you are not yourself or not identifying as yourself. So I definitely would recommend that anyone, if you're passing through New York, take a stop into , uh, the Stonewall end also. I'll go ahead and say it. Fantastic. Drag shows. I've been to a drag show there had a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 16:00

Yeah, they are good.

Speaker 1: 16:01

So we hope that all the folks that are out there celebrating pride, we pray that you have a safe and joyful pride celebration. And for those that are helping with Pride celebrations, we hope that you enjoy that as well. And speaking of being proud, we are very proud of our guest for today's podcast. Joining us will be Isaac Adlerstein, who is the executive director of Broadway community. And we look forward to this conversation with Isaac, and we hope that you enjoy. Well , we are so excited to be joined on this episode of a Matter of Faith, a Presby podcast by a very special guest. Joining us is Isaac Adlerstein, who is the Executive director at Broadway Community in New York City. Isaac, thanks so much for being with us on the podcast,

Speaker 3: 16:54

Simon and Lee , thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 16:56

Yes. Yeah, Isaac, it's good to meet you and it's good to be with you on the podcast. We are going start off with our question and then we'll just, you know, we'll just see where it goes. But our question reads, what are some of the challenges of addressing poverty and homelessness in urban and city context? Are there also certain opportunities available for addressing these issues in cities that are not available in other areas, such as funds or partnerships? So how would you respond to, to that question or those questions?

Speaker 3: 17:36

It's an excellent, excellent series of questions. I think that there are a number of obstacles , uh, for properly addressing , uh, homelessness in an urban context. Uh, the top three that come to mind are stigma, the overwhelming nature of the problem and complacency that society has at large with the issue . So I'm gonna go into each of those , uh, one by one . So the misconceptions, I mean, folks who are experiencing homelessness are heavily stigmatized, unfortunately, especially here in New York City, where there have been a number of high profile violent incidents involving people who were unhoused some media outlets like the New York Post. Uh, jumping on that. And in invoking a lot of public fear, there were some misconceptions, some major misconceptions that people have . Folks think that if someone is experiencing homelessness, that they must, you know, be addicted to a substance or that they must suffer from a severe mental illness, or that they deserve to be there because they don't work hard or they're lazy. Those are all stereotypes. And the truth of the matter is, is that folks , uh, become homeless by falling on hard times. The vast majority of people that we work here with here at Broadway are people who have just fallen on hard times, who have gotten severe, you know, medical incident that set them back tremendously and put them in major debt. People who suffered job loss, or folks whose rent was raised. There are any number of factors that could lead a person to lose their housing. The conceptions that people have at large of folks who are experiencing homelessness is inaccurate. And that's not to say that people don't experience mental health challenges and chemical dependency, but we have that in the general population as well. No one is harping on financiers who are snorting cocaine , uh, in , in skyscrapers. But for some reason, when people are poor, you know, we, we hold them to a much higher standard as a society. So that's number one. Number two is that the issue is just so overwhelming. No matter what you do, this issue is always gonna exist. I mean, homelessness in New York City first emerged during the Great Depression. It was of course a major thing back then, sort of went to the wayside , uh, up until the late seventies, early eighties. Uh, at which point homelessness began to reemerge , uh, in New York City. That was because of the changes in building codes, and don't quote me on that. But there were, there were a number of changes that , uh, led to the reduction in the number of single room occupancy units here in Manhattan. And those single room occupancy units were really the, the bedrock of housing for many folks who had , uh, limited financial resources. So when those started to get on the way out, housing became more and more unaffordable. All that is to say, this is an issue that has existed in New York City at this level of prominence since the early 1980s. And it has not gotten any better. In 2022 more New Yorkers than ever experienced homelessness. Uh , this work is almost like, you know, trying to drink the entire ocean using a straw. You know, it's, it is just a very daunting task. You could help a number of people on the individual level, which has tremendous intrinsic value, but to solve the issue itself is challenging and overwhelming as a result. I think that we're led to the third major challenge in the urban setting, which is complacency. Uh, especially here in New York City. So many people are just desensitized to seeing folks who are living and squalor. You know, it's, and , and it's not right. You know, we, we have just become desensitized to it. It's become something that we just accept as part of the New York City experience, and as a result, we don't always have the urgency to, to change it. And add to that, the fact that many people take the personal responsibility lens when it comes to homelessness and, you know, pin it again on the victim, it , it makes it even more challenging. So the second question was, are there also certain opportunities available for addressing these issues in cities that are not available in other areas, such as funds and partnerships? Absolutely. Homelessness is a national problem. It doesn't only exist in New York City. It doesn't only exist in Los Angeles or in San Francisco or Seattle. It exists everywhere. It's more prominent in major cities than it is in other settings. But it is a national problem. We as a country have a responsibility to ensure that everyone is able to, you know, have basic access to food, shelter , uh, education. That's, that's something that any society should do. Understanding that's a national problem, that therefore the only way to address it is a national solution. And that the only way to really get national solutions is by electing people , uh, who can make policy changes on the national level. I think there's a lot of need to bring new voices into communities that may stigmatize this population. So I think that in areas where there's not as much funding or there are not as many programs , uh, in place as others, I would encourage them to attempt to educate people the , the very nature of homelessness. That's one thing, you know, number two, I think just borrowing from the example of Broadway community and so many other amazing agencies out here in, in New York, and , uh, there are a number in Long Island, honestly, all over, all over the country, an operationalized Broadway community began with just a couple of students and a couple of parishioners from the Broadway, Presbyterian Church. Couple of students from Union Theological Seminary did not have a lot of money, did not have a lot of resources, but they did what they could practically no funding, challenges getting, getting resources and whatnot. Folks hope and dedication to serving their neighbors turned into something that's had , uh, over 40 year legacy. So I would say to folks in other cities that they should understand that, you know, to borrow a quote from, I thought it was Margaret Mead , she said, never underestimate the power of a small group of committed people to change the world. And in fact, it is the only thing that ever has. So that's what I would like for, for everyone in this country to remember, is just we have the power to make the society what we want it to be. And, you know, from the individual level to a small group, we could do it.

Speaker 1: 24:49

Yeah. I think that something you, you touched on is regarding the , the sort of stigma is that we forget the humanity of other people. I mean, it's such a, it's, it's something that is almost encouraged by society at large, especially in society in the US where there's very much of this pull yourself up by your bootstraps type of attitude, which is frankly kind of, it's not, it's not even a reality because there's so many things that lead to different folks being able to do different things in their lives or not being able to do different things. Um, a variety of justice issues that different people in different communities face. And as people of faith, especially this is a Presbyterian podcast, but as in, in wider faith communities think that we're called to remember and see the humanity in each person. And if we do that, then we don't just see them as only the sole, the sole person who's responsible for all of their own problems. They certainly have some agency in trying to , to help themselves, but that doesn't mean that it's entirely up up to them in terms of they have to just do everything themselves. There should be systems in place to be able to empower them to be able to do that when they do fall on those hard times. And, you know, it's, it's really encouraging that there are some systems and, and organizations out there to try to help folks to do that. But I know that that also requires that are are sort of systems more general, whether it be in New York or Philadelphia or other places around the country. That systems also be corrected as well to, to better foster that. So I was curious a little bit in your experience at Broadway community , um, and you can tell us a little bit more about, about Broadway community and its activities. Cuz my understanding is that you do a lot of work with, so with , with individuals, but through a city system , uh, in terms of getting how , how folks maybe come into your doors for certain services. But what has been your experience or observations about sort of a more system like system or structural changes that maybe would be helpful and to better foster the, the assistance that folks need as they're trying to get out of those hard times?

Speaker 3: 27:01

So we at Broadway community are a 40 year old human service agency. Uh, we're located in the basement of the Broadway Presbyterian Church and we offer a broad range of services that are meant to empower and serve and welcome , uh, our most vulnerable neighbors, especially those who are experiencing homelessness and hunger. Uh, so we offer a soup kitchen three times a week. We have a food pantry that we offer twice a week. We have a shelter, which is open seven nights a week, 365 nights a year. We have a medical clinic, we have a computer lab where people could access the internet or meet with a volunteer to learn how or to, to create a resume, a cover letter , or apply for a job. We have benefits enrollment, someone can meet with a volunteer who could help them obtain public assistance, food stamps, medicaid identification. Recently we also introduced a life skills empowerment program to our work, and I'm happy to speak more about that. But the program is designed to , uh, empower , uh, folks who have experiences with homelessness to recover from the traumas associated with homelessness and find comfort in community and in sharing with story and setting goals and actually achieving them . So we do a lot of wonderful work here at Broadway. Hopefully much more to come. As you said, we are closely connected with the city of New York. Our reciprocation and food pantry are funded through a variety of sources. We get funding from the state and their hunger prevention, nutrition assistance program, hip np . We get food from the state, again through a program called Nourish New York. We receive money from the city of New York through the Human Resources Administration. And that is by far our largest source of food money that we're able to get, have a connection with the food bank for New York City, which receives goods from the US Department of Agriculture through their TFA program, temporary Emergency Food Assistance Program. We got stuff that's donated to us in kind all the time from organizations like City Harvest and Columbia University, which is right across the street from us and private citizens who wanna , wanna give us resources. I'll say the city has been a wonderful partner in keeping our receipt kitchen and our food pantry afloat. Uh, this year, the funding that we received was very, very generous. Uh, in fact maybe even a surplus or a bit bit more than we needed. But that has really allowed us to keep up with the increased demand that we have experienced in the last year. Uh, to give you a small taste, in May, in May of 2023, we served 77% more meals on average than we did in May of 20 22, 70 7%. And 2022 was our busiest year to date before this. So demand is just a far higher than we have ever experienced. So we need a lot more food, we need a lot more manpower and a lot more of everything to, to make things work. So the city has been an excellent partner in that regard. Uh, as for the shelter, so we work with an entity called the Manhattan Outreach Consortium, which is a partnership between three major community service providers here in Manhattan, namely the Center for Urban Community Services Breaking Ground in Goddard Riverside. And this entity in Manhattan Outreach Consortium, which I'll call Mock for short, is contracted by the city to provide outreach services in the borough of Manhattan. So in New York, we have the three 11 system where you call and you could access , uh, non-emergency city services. So if you see someone who's experiencing homelessness and you know, may need , uh, some additional support, you can call three 11 , or you could use three 11 s app and you could tell the operator that there is someone who's in need of support. The operator will then dispatch will pass that over to either the Department of Homeless Services, and this is all based on geography. They'll post it , they'll pass it to Department of Homeless Services itself, which will then send an outreach team, or , uh, they will send it to the Manhattan to m uh, if it's mock an outreach worker, normally two outreach workers, always two outreach workers will approach the person that the , uh, request was about. We'll ask them if they're interested in shelter and if they're interested in other services. If the person says yes, then Mock will conduct an intake and will refer that person to any of its vacancies. And if we have a vacancy here at Broadway, they very well may send them here . Our shelter is so-called Faith-Based Stabilization Shelter, which is a very unique model. Uh, we are just one of two sites in all Manhattan that uses this model. The second site is Rendell Memorial Presbyterian Church on hundred 37th Street and Malcolm X Boulevard. But essentially what we do that is different from other faith-based shelters is that we allow people to stay with us seven nights a week. And we provide supportive services in this case by way of our partners at moc . So a person could enter the system right off the street and will be surrounded with a network of resources that they could use to get back on their feet. And here at Broadway, things are comfortable. We have just 15 beds here. We have both men and women, which is a testament to the calm and safe atmosphere that we have here. We have security onsite at all times. We have a trained staff member who's proficient in conflict deescalation, and there's really the point person for addressing guests needs. We have two cooks who alternate days . We have a TV where folks who watch the, the latest sporting events. We have a library, we have showers and laundry, of course. Uh, we have the computer lab, which folks are, are more than able to use. Uh, so this is a comfortable place and it's a lot better than some of the major city runner, city contracted shelters that have hundreds of people in the same room. So people are very compelled to come to a place like Broadway. I would like to see this model be replicated across the city. Finally, it looks like that is going to happen , uh, through the asylum seeker shelters, which I could talk about.

Speaker 2: 34:00

Yeah, let's, let's talk about it. Cuz I think that's one of the, that's kind of talking about the intersections of a lot of things that are going on in the city when it comes to migration and homelessness, because a lot of our siblings who are , uh, seeking asylum in the United States, unfortunately many of them do sometimes experience homelessness. So yeah, I would, I think our listeners would love to hear about it. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 34:28

So New York City has been the hardest hit. You know, many, many states would actually contest that. But in the last year , uh, New York City has received an, an outstanding amount of , uh, asylum seekers, maybe outstanding is not the correct word, an overwhelming number of asylum seekers, primarily by, by way of the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott and Ron DeSantis has sent some people up here. Uh, but 72,000 people have come to New York , uh, seeking asylum since the start of last summer, 72,000. Prior to the asylum seekers coming here in New York City had roughly 60,000 people , uh, who were experiencing homelessness on any given evening. So to have an additional 72,000 people come here, some of whom do have some connections where , where they could stay, but many of whom have no or , or no potential form of housing, it has completely overwhelmed the shelter system. Uh, the Shel , the number of people in the shelter system has frankly doubled , uh, because of the asylum secret crisis back in June of last year. Uh, June 7th, to be precise , uh, mayor Adams invited myself and dozens of faith leaders across the city to city Hall to engage in a round table discussion with him about what the faith community could do to contribute to affordable housing and the efforts to combat homelessness. Two things resulted from that meeting, or two working groups resulted from that meeting. The first was the creation of a working group revolving affordable hou revolving around affordable housing. Pretty much laying, laying a framework for houses of worship to develop , uh, housing above their properties by selling their air rights to developers. Uh, and number two was the working group on homelessness, which I was asked to be a part of. Me and my colleagues were given that opportunity because the model that we have here at Broadway is so unique and should really be replicated across the city, then this really presented powerful avenue for that to happen. I drafted up a , a , a proposal that requested that the city create an additional a hundred faith-based stabilization shelters, each of them with somewhere in the range of 15 to 19 beds. I asked for 19, but you know, 15 would've been suitable too for those houses of worship to be reimbursed $65 per bed per night, which is what we here get at Broadway. The whole point being that people would be, people who are chronically on the streets would be more compelled to enter a faith-based shelter than a congregate shelter. And it garnered some interest. We spoke at the mayor's Office of Faith-Based Community Partnerships, presented the proposal to the Deputy Mayor for Health and Human Services and her office. Around that time , uh, New York City's shelter system was at a breaking point with the asylum seeker crisis. So the city said, you know, we want to put this plan into action. We need to put this plan into action cuz we need we more options for these asylum seekers to, to stay at . That kicked off a series of discussions , uh, that ultimately culminated with an announcement by Mayor Adams that the city would be empowering 50 houses of worship to , uh, house asylum seekers for a period of two years at a rate of $65 per bed per night and Broadway community. And , you know, the model that we have here is the one that is, is the example and that is gonna be used for all those sites. Uh, so it's quite exciting and all told this is going to provide shelter for at least an additional 950 people at great savings to the city. So it's very, very exciting. It's gonna be administered by an organization called The New York Disaster Interfaith Services. Dozens and dozens of congregations have already signed up and expressed interest. Now it's just the stage to decide who, who will, you know, be a shelter alternative who won't.

Speaker 1: 38:50

That's incredible. And there's , um, there's actually a , a , a news article about this exact asylum seeking , uh, shelter sort of process that we'll be sure to put in the show notes so that folks can, can check it out. And , uh, of course Broadway community is referenced there. It's pretty amazing because I don't think we always, as Lee said, connect things like asylum seeking to shelter mm-hmm . <affirmative> , even though it's like everyone needs shelter. Whether you are someone who is homeless in your , in your country or maybe home of origin or where you reside now, or the place that you ended up in , uh, due to life circumstances. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . So it's, it's, that's pretty interesting to learn about. I also wanted to just bring us back to , um, another question from earlier, which was about some of the sort of like the challenges that you observe or not challenges, but the, you know, the system cause you , because we've talked about sort of thinking about how systems can also improve. Like this is an example I think the asylum seeking of like, how, so in at least like city level government, someone said we need to be able to do this. How do we set up a system to do it? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they found a model that they thought worked and they're gonna implement it, which is pretty amazing cuz that doesn't always happen. Yeah. Very often it's, they just , it just kind of seems to waffle forever and nothing happens. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , and you also mentioned that there are so many other organizations through the city or connected to the city that sort of help support the process of, of sheltering and providing for our homeless neighbors mm-hmm. <affirmative> throughout the process, like the food, you know, food bank people donating, things like that. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I'm curious about, what are a couple improvements that you think could be made to sort of a system more broadly? Because again, thinking about root causes. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 40:41

Uh , I think there are a number of things that would greatly, greatly benefit the system. The first thing that we have to talk about is just the speed at which someone enters the shelter. S from the point at which they enter the shelter system to the point at which they get permanent housing. Right now, on average it takes a year or longer on , uh, on average, as I said, to obtain permanent housing. Once you're in the shelter system, a year or more on average that year is very traumatizing. People are staying in a shelter during that time, you know, really may not feel tremendous agency over their lives. So I think the first thing that we could do to improve the system is to speed up that process at which people could obtain permanent housing. And I think there are a couple things that need to be implemented for that to work. The first is we have to lighten the caseloads of our direct service providers. So at some of our partner agencies, your typical case manager there, we'll have a caseload of 40 to 50 people, 40 to 50 people. So if they somehow worked a hundred hours a week, which obviously is number one illegal, number two, it , it would just completely burn you out . You'd only be able to devote maybe two hours a week to each person. And these are cases that are really, really complex. Meanwhile, you also have a lot of turnover in the industry because case managers are not compensated , uh, very highly and there are other opportunities where they can make a better living. So you combine those two things, heavy workloads, which lead to not enough attention, going to individual clients, burnout with the staff and not enough money that they're getting paid with. It's a recipe for a lot of inefficiency. I think we need to hire more case managers, come up with models that will lighten the workload of the direct service providers. So that's, that's the first thing. Second thing, which is addressing turnover, just pay people better. That's how I think you speed up , uh, at least that the ways that agencies interface with their clients , uh, vis-a-vis , uh, obtaining permanent housing. But I also think we have to talk about the voucher system, a number of housing vouchers that are available , uh, to people in New York. The first, of course, is section eight, which is provided by the Department of Housing and Urban Development. Uh, section eight is very difficult to get. Uh, it takes a very, very long time to be , uh, to have your application accepted. That said, that voucher, the section eight voucher is like gold because the US government is gonna pay its bills on time . Even even with this recent debt showdown, we , uh, we paid it on time section eight, then there's a state voucher, and then there are a couple city vouchers. The main one is city thefts . The city is not as good as the federal government as paying its bes on tongue . So as a result, landlords are often reticent to accept voucher holders to live on their properties. I think that the , the speed at which the city pays its bills needs to be improved. I think that stigma also needs to be reduced between, you know, folks who have experienced homelessness and the landlords. Because some landlords may think, you know, this person may damage the apartment and I'm gonna lose, you know, valuation because of that. So I think breaking down those stigmas is very unnecessary . Then if we're talking about the shelter system, which is another major piece here , and it's really the , the first point of contact after initial outreach that people have in the system, a shelter system has been improved because if people are unwilling to enter the system and they prefer to sleep on the streets, you're not gonna be able to effectively, you know, usher that person to permanent housing. So we have to make our shelters more welcoming. We have to make them smaller, we have to make them safer. Uh, we just need to improve the experience as a whole.

Speaker 2: 45:08

Yeah. And, and it's all combined with what you said about our medical system, what you said about if people get injured or if people need a surgery that could put 'em out on the street or, you know, there's a lot of systems in our country that I think with the gifts that a lot of different people have can always find a way to kind of get involved in this. And that's something that I've always found interesting in , in this conversation is because people always ask how do we, you know, how do we get involved mm-hmm . <affirmative> and how do we kind of help out? And I wonder what you would say to that too, because it is kind of a both and , right? You always need somebody to help in a sense of direct service or what we say direct service is if, if we're working in non the nonprofit world, but also, I mean, there's always other things that people can do when it comes to the systems. There's kind of a both amp . But what would you say to people who are kind of like, well, how do we like get involved? How do we help in, in this thing we, we ex we see as homelessness?

Speaker 3: 46:26

Well, I think the first thing that folks should do is to speak with people with lived experience and take direction from them. Uh, I mean, folks with lived experience are the experts on this subject matter and have a lot of very rich ideas on how to improve these systems and the experience as a whole. So that's number one. Number two, I mean, I, I think it's just critical to identify where there are gaps and one's community. Um, if there are people who are experiencing homelessness or if hunger is something that is prevalent, folks should take initiative and think of ways to address those challenges. Um, whether that be opening a soup kitchen or opening up a house of worship to serve as a shelter. And then of course there's direct service and volunteering. You know, it's certainly, there are certainly a lot of opportunities here in New York City. Um, but there are all over the country as well. I would tell people, serve at your local soup kitchen , uh, serve at your local food pantry. Just get to know our most vulnerable neighbors as people and not just as some image that was conjured up by the media. And then the final thing is, of course, electing , uh, representatives who will make this a priority and who don't want to tolerate homelessness, housing, and affordability as a country. We were able, we were able to do a lot of things when we just set our minds to it and said like, we're not gonna tolerate this anymore. And I think we could do a similar thing with homelessness.

Speaker 1: 48:08

Absolutely. I think that's a great charge for everyone and to all of our listeners, remember your votes matter too, and who we elect is so, so important. So Isaac, thank you so much for giving us, joining us for this deep dive on homelessness and poverty and really just not being afraid to jump into sort of the deep end to talk about the nitty gritty of the systems, but also about just sort of the, the challenges that our homeless neighbors face. And we'll be sure to have a link in the show notes to Broadway communities so that folks can check that out as well as an a , uh, news article about the asylum seekers situation in New York City and how Broadway community is being used as , uh, a model for , um, helping the, our asylum seeker neighbors. So once again, Isaac, thanks so much for being on the podcast.

Speaker 3: 49:00

Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2: 49:04

Thanks everyone for listening to this episode of a Matter of Faith , the Presby podcast, and thanks to Isaac for being with us and talking about homelessness and how we can be in solidarity with our neighbors who are experiencing homelessness. Again, we hope you subscribe wherever you get your podcast and we hope you leave us a review and leave us five stars and a few words we would love to hear from you. If you have any questions, send them to fate podcast@peaceusa.org and check at our website a matter of fate podcast.com. There you will find all things a matter of faith , including our Spanish and Korean podcast, advocacy watch and our listening guides. So check out the website and we will talk to you again next week.